She attacked my religion and I attack back!

someone commented on my comment on do jews, christians, and muslims worship in the same God?
i said yes and that person commented and said this and this is my reaction…

don’t feel discouraged or put off.
well i am and its the truth, theres only one God and we all worship him.

Lots of people believe what you said to be true.
It isn’t true, but not having studied this doesn’t make you a bad person or a stupid one.
EXCUSE ME? if you really did have studied this stuff, you would have found out that its the opposite.

Muslims are commanded to destroy infidels.
i didnt even know what was an infidel until like very recently…
thats one more stereotype that the MEDIA portrays. we are NOT commanded to “destroy” the infidels.
THINK ABOUT IT! if we were commanded to do that, then there would be no christians and jews in the middle east! if you look for christians and jews there, you will find out, OH MY GOD! there are christians and jews in the middle east… GOD! PEOPLE THINK!!!! THE MEDIA IS TAKING AWAY UR MINDS!

True, in other places in the Koran, they’re commanded to be tolerant of the “people of the book”, but later Koranic passages take precidence over earlier ones. Even the earlier passages are repressive of “infidels”, but the later ones are pretty terminal with regard to treatment of people who refuse to convert to or, even worse, who convert away from Islam.
what the crap? what are you talking about here? treatment of people who refuse to convert to islam, or even divert away from islam… we treat them like people… we dont treat them like dogs and make them convert or we will shoot. if they dont want to convert, its their choice… not ours….

Jews have an incomplete view of God.
Muslims have a different God.
how the crap do we have a different God? please elobrate on that…

Or to put it their way, Christians and Jews worship three gods (the father, the mother, and the son)
wait i thought it was the father, the son, and the holy spirit…
not sure that the jews worship three Gods too… if you do research, instead of listening to the media, you might know just a tad bit more than you know right now… or maybe a lot more… it depends on how much research you do on this topic here.

Mohammed got his ideas of what Christians believe from the gnostics
our prophet (saw) did NOT get his ideas from the Christians, he was NOT even living near Christians to begin with…. he was living near people who worshiped statues…

Mohammed (saw) said: “Far be it from god that he should have a son.”
i think here, he is talking about God having a son and if you think about it, if you define the word son,
you have to have a wife for a son and the son has to have been given birth by the wife!

Historically, the Muslim god evolved from the moon god. Originally, El Al had three daughters (in deference to the people of Mecca, who were, at the time, militarily superior to Mohammed). Mohammed wanted his people to have their own monotheistic religion, like everybody else. So he created one by taking bits from Judaism and Gnostic “Christianity” and adding in a few of his own inventions.
where the crap did you get this information… what the crap is the “moon god?”
he was not even living near the jews.

Who knows. Maybe he really did see an “angel” who gave him decrees. Satan presents himself as an angel of light. I think it more likely he, like Joseph Smith of more modern times, invented the whole thing for personal gain.
what the crap would he had gained? he couldnt even read or write… and if he did make all this up… then he was so accurate in his predictions and the only thing who could have given him those predictions is God… 

Mohammed was mure successful at actually benefitting from his new religion than Smith was.
Mohammed lived in luxury,
he lived in poverty

having 13 wives,
he had 9 wifes and that was the only prophet who could have that many wives

one 6 years old when he married her, great power, and all the luxuries he admonished his followers to shun.
i dont think he married a 6 year old… but i know he didnt have “great power and luxuries.” so explain to me what luxuries he had…

As to living lives of integrity, Hear, Hear! You are absolutely right, Lee. There’s no need to debate Muslims.
OUCH that hurts.

They have their own problems. What they need from us is not condemnation or logical or historical reasons to leave Islam.
*sigh* i would never leave islam, even if there was a gun to my head and someone saying to leave it.

They need to see our love, which is pretty hard to see sometimes
we dont hate you! and we know u dont hate us!

Especially since they really believe the US is a Christian nation–ouch!
well its kinda too bad that the US isnt a Christian nation,
because if it was, i would have great respect for it… more than i do for it now.
religion brings order to your life… instead of going through life doing whatever you want, like having sex before you are married or drinking when ever you want and then becoming addicted to alcohol after that and THEN wishing you have never started to drink in the first place, or ending up to have sex and ending up pregnant and then you have a baby and unplanned pregnancy or getting high from cocaine or LSD or any other drug and then getting angry and end up beating your child or wife, you have order in your life and you know not to do these thing because your religion is protecting you from doing those things…

Guess whos ignorant now?

all-in-all, i really have no idea where you got this information and its really sad that whoever is giving you doesnt know what he’s talking about and is giving you wrong information because then you will never know the truth and its a sad day when people don’t know the truth and they talk because it makes them look so stupid here…

PEACE BE WITH YOU!

Sweetangel16175

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24 Responses to “She attacked my religion and I attack back!”

  1. zoomash Says:

    Well answered. Really informative.

  2. Dear Sweetangel,

    First, only the first few sentences of my response were intended exclusively for you. Most of it was general information, given for the rather poor reason that I like to “hear” myself write. I’m sorry that I didn’t make this clear–it was quite understandable that you read my whole reply as addressed directly to you. I thought that a couple of the earlier responses to your post were kind of “short” and figured they would make you feel bad. They would have done to me, if they were directed toward me. That was the only reason I mentioned your pen-name.

    Second, if I had realized you were Muslim, I would have been more diplomatic in the way I spoke and certainly would not have dumped that much information on you without warning or invitation. So, I’m truly sorry that I offended you. I simply supposed (and it was a silly thing to do, I admit) that you were a non-Muslim person who was misinformed as to what Islam teaches.

    Since you ask about my resources, I’ll have to get back to you. It’s late and I’ve been mostly offline for several days because of inclement weather (we’re on a satellite hookup), so I don’t have time right now for a well-documented response. If you’re truly interested, I’ll be happy to discuss this with you. Just let me know in your reply to this if you feel you’re able to discuss this sort of thing without getting upset. I honestly have no intention or desire to be rude to you, to “diss” you, or to dismiss you, but I will disagree with you. Like I said, if you sincerely want information, let me know.

    Just a few brief responses now . . . If I said that Mohammed believed the Jews worshipped “the Father, the Mother, and the Son”, I mis-spoke. I meant to apply this only to the Christians. Non-Christian Jews have only ever worshiped the Father. Mohammed didn’t live near major Christian or Jewish populations, but remember he lived (if I remember correctly) around 400 years after Christ. Christianity had spread, and populations of Jews had been widely dispersed for many centuries. The Christians Mohammed had met, unfortunately, were Gnostic Christians and some of them did, in fact, worship Father, Mother & Son. Even if those Mohammed met did not specifically do this, their great reverence for the Mother would likely have made it appear to him that they did worship her, even as the Roman Catholic Church may appear to promote the worship of Mary in some locations.

    When I said “There is no need to debate Muslims”, I meant only that debate doesn’t change hearts. It usually only irritates people. This was not meant as an expression of contempt in any way toward you or anyone else. I might just as well have made this statement of Athiests, Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, or Communists. Debate doesn’t change people. Information is certainly worth having, and information may prompt a sincere seeker to look further into a matter, but it will not change her heart. This is why I hesitate to engage in this exchange of information with you. I’m afraid I will only enrage you and I have no desire to do that.

    As to where I’ve gotten my information . . . two books written by two different former Muslim authors (well, one by a team of two former Muslims)and their cited historical sources, and from the Koran, a copy of which is lying on my coffee table (along with three or four translations of the Bible).

    And finally . . .Yes, it is too bad, but the US is a post-Christian nation. I don’t like this, but still I wish the rest of the world was aware of it, particularly the Muslim world and third-world countries around the globe. People watch our entertainment media and rightly judge what they see as immoral. Americans, including many Christians, support this kind of thing by watching, listening to, and purchasing it, so we are as much to blame as anyone. Still, the stuff you see from Hollywood is not what Christian people are all about though we do get identified with it. Why? Because much of the world supposes that the US is a Christian nation. There are many Christians here, but this is not, alas, a Christian nation.

    If you want to talk, as I said, let me know. I would appreciate it, however, if we could do one question/remark at a time. I’ve got a job to be at and many other responsibilities as well as my own blog, which takes up quite a lot of time, so this would be much more manageable for me as well as more understandable for us both.

    God’s Peace,

    Cindy

  3. sweetangel16175 Says:

    its ok, i wasnt offended… i just wanted to clear up the stereotypes and the wrong information you gave to us…
    well, those sources are giving you and all the other people who read it wrong information and i am just trying to tell you this, since i am a muslim and i know the truth… do a research about islam on google and yahoo and compare it to the source… and see how different it is…
    oh i thought u meant like we shouldnt waste time debating with them because we know that they are wrong… anyway…
    i am not sure if i want to start a religious debate with u because even i dont know that much about our prophet (saw) and because i dont think we will get anywhere, but i will think about it about the information…
    and i will tell you,
    thank you so much for commenting and taking time out of your day to do this…

  4. Hi, Sweetangel

    I’ve been thinking about you and praying for you. Thanks for your kind response, and I quite understand your reluctance to enter into a religious debate. I don’t want to debate, either, but I am always ready to have a mutually respectful discussion with you anytime you like.

    I need to beg your forgiveness for a couple of errors in my post, though. I should never post anything with a number in it without checking my resources because numbers just do not stick in my head for some reason . . . .

    Mohammed lived 600 years after Christ, not 400; the little girl Mohammed married (Aishah)was 9, not 6 when he consumated the marriage. He betrothed her at the age of 6. Betrothal was a legally binding covenant which could only be broken by divorce (by the man–women were not permitted to divorce.); and finally, Mohammed had a total of 13, not 12 wives. I had forgotten Khadija, who was his only wife until she died, and who also financed his early ministry.

    Grace and Peace to you,

    Cindy

  5. sweetangel16175 Says:

    thank u for ur prayers… i really need them…
    u didnt to me wrong so you dont need to beg for my forgiveness
    could you please name all the wives our prophet had?
    you know why he had that many wives… to spread islam…
    thats the only reason he had that many wives…

  6. Hi, Sweetangel

    Sure, I’ll be glad to do that–name first, then age at marriage:

    Khadija (40)
    Sawda (30?)
    Aishah (9)
    Hafsah (18)
    Um Salma (29)
    Zaynab (30)
    Juweiriyeh (20)
    Zaynab bint Jarsh (38)
    Rayhana (Jewish) (age unknown)
    Maryam (Christian) (age unknown)
    Um Habeeba (35)
    Sufia (17)
    Maimoona (27)

    Not to be too hard on Muhammed–his polygamy was acceptable in his society. He may have had as many as 15 wives and concubines, however these are the only for sure ones. But how any man could consummate a marriage with a 9 year old . . . I teach a lot of 9 year old girls. They’re little girls. Very little, mostly very sweet.

    Mohammed’s policy of only beating his wives as a last resort was lenient for his society. The problem is, this kind of standard is still acceptable in the Muslim world, except that Muslim men other than Muhammed are permitted only 4 wives at any one time. There is a way around this, though. They can marry a woman (or women) in the evening and get a divorce in the morning.

    I don’t want to tell you more about Mohammed unless you want to know, but if you have any other questions about that or about something else, just say so. I’ll do my best. I told my daughter about our conversation, and she’s praying for you, too.

    God’s Peace and Love to you,

    Cindy

  7. Oops! I guess my ) marks made smileys!

    Hafsah was 18 and Zaynab binb Jarsh was 38.

    God’s Blessings,

    Cindy

  8. zoomash Says:

    Hi cindyinsd,

    Well just want to clarify few points which you have posted regarding marrying of 4 wives and how people get away with it. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) got married to so many wives to safeguard them from evil and barbaric men who use to treat women like slaves at that time. The situation of women in society was very bad and could be compared to animals. They were not respected and not given any place in the society. The only way to give women their honour back was to provide them shelter and protection and to do so Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) had to marry them to safeguard them.

    Regarding marrying more than 1 wives. Quran clearly states that if only a person can do justice between all his wives then only he is allowed to marry more than 1 otherwise it is prohibited. But I know there are muslims who manipulate this saying and use it for their own benefit. As always there are “black sheeps” in every community. So anyone who marries in morning and then giving divorce in the evening is going against the Quran and is therefore not acceptable by Allah.

    I just wanted to clarify these points and not to have a debate. Hope these points prove why we muslims follow Quran and teachings of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

  9. sweetangel16175 Says:

    and my mom said he only had 9 wives…
    thank u zoomash for clarifying it up…
    and the wife also has to agree, so its either you divorce her and marry the second wife or she agrees and you can marry the second wife too…
    its not like the man has the only say…
    but he also wanted to spread islam

  10. Hi, Sweetangel and Zoomash,

    The historical accounts vary as to number of wives–from the 13 I listed, who are known, up to 15 plus concubines. Different schools of Islam have different teachings, however, so I would not say your mom is lying at all. Islam has its “denominations”–many of them, and some teach things that would undoubtedly sadden you, and this in highly educated countries operating under Sharia law. Why? Well, in Sharia law, individual Mullahs have a great deal of power and can teach whatever pleases them.

    As to whether all Mohammed’s women agreed, I couldn’t say. That isn’t the case today in many Muslim countries. You may say these Muslims (not terrorists, necessarily–just ordinary people) in places like Pakistan and surrounding countries plus many Aisian countries are just bad apples, and maybe they are, but they represent a huge part of the Muslim world. Young women (girls who have started menstruating) are often given by fathers or relatives without their concent. Daughters of low-class citizens are often kidnapped and married against their and their families’ will to Muslim men and treated as slaves. So no, in practice, willing consent does not always happen in these heavily Sharia dominated Muslim counries.

    In the west, yes, women are treated a great deal better, but if the west were to come under Sharia law as the Koran demands, I feel absolutely certain this would change quickly. I don’t say this because I believe all Muslim men are evil. I say it because of human nature and the nature of power, whether in the hands of men or of women.

    Let’s see, what was the other thing? Oh yes. You’re right, Sweetangel. Mohammed may have had other reasons for marrying so many women, including the ones Zoomash mentioned (to shelter and provide for them), and I haven’t heard that any of the women objected to marrying him though it’s possible. As far as I can see, it’s believed that Mohammed married these women mostly to cement tribal alliances and in the hope of having male children.

    As I said, though I believe marrying more than one woman goes against God’s plans, I would not hold this against Mohammed though I do think polygamy is wrong by God’s standards and by modern standards for the just treatment of women.

    The big thing I have a problem with regarding Mohammed’s wives is the one neither of you have touched (and I don’t blame you). What about little Aishah? What about a man over 50 (or any man) having sex with a nine year old girl, even though she worships him and has been given to him by her own father? How can this be right at any time for any man?

    God’s Grace and Peace to you,

    Cindy

  11. Looking over my post in the large window, I realize I didn’t make my sentiments clear. What I wanted to say about your mom’s statement, Sweetangel, is that I would never accuse your mother of misleading you, but that I do believe she may have received a different teaching as there are always variations between different branches of a faith.

    Cindy

  12. zoomash Says:

    Hi cindyinsd,

    Let’s discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet in Islam!

    First of all, it is important to know:

    Aisha’s parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married. Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet’s marriage was:

    People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.

    Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world Non-Muslim and Muslim countries.

    “Prophet Muhammad’s marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions!”

    Muhammad peace be upon him lived in a society and culture that existed 1400 years ago, and we must not judge what he or others did based on our standards today. It is wrong and foolish to do so.

    Hope that clarifies the point and cindyinsd please do let me know if you still have any further negative points regarding that.

  13. zoomash Says:

    Regarding Sharia Law:-

    A lot of Islamic critics tend to attack and criticize Islam because its Shariah Law is strict. I agree, Islam is very strict when it comes to justice. But why complain and argue about something that will not affect you? Who are the people that should complain about Shariah Law? It is the people who are going to get affected by it, that’s who. Who are the people who are going to get affected by it? Its those criminals of course. Its those rapists, drug dealers, murderers, rapists, thieves, armed robbers, fornicators, adulterers etc. that are going to get affected by this law. Are you one of them? If you are, then you better change your ways because you have no right to be any of those things. If you are not, then why complain?

    People might go and say, “Well we are born sinners, we have to sin” But that is no excuse. I can’t go to court and tell the judge that I was born a sinner. We all make small mistakes. We all make minor sins. But in Shariah Law there are no punishments for minor sins, but for major sins. There is no excuse for us to commit major sins such as murder or armed robbery.

    “In the west, yes, women are treated a great deal better”, well cindyinsd that is a completely untrue statement. There are more rape and cruelty against women in west than in any other muslim countries. In west rape cases are not given any importance because they are considered as part of society. According to UN in USA alone there are more than 50000 rape cases.

    Whereas in muslim countries due to Sharia Law these numbers are very low. Iam not saying these crimes are not taking place in muslim countries as always there are “black sheeps” in every community and we should not point finger on any religion due to few of these criminals.

  14. zoomash Says:

    “As far as I can see, it’s believed that Mohammed married these women mostly to cement tribal alliances and in the hope of having male children.” – completely untrue statement. He never married for male child. In Islam a woman is given more respect and is always put ahead of men, unlike in chirstanity.

  15. zoomash Says:

    All the reference have been taken from http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm and Hadith.

  16. sweetangel16175 Says:

    cindy, my mom doesnt lie…
    and historical and the qur’an are two different things here…
    what do u mean by denominations? if you mean sects, well lets see how many christianity has… theres the three main sects, eastern orothodox, and then theres, roman catholic, and protestant… and i wonder how many little sects protestant has…
    u are on the right track zoomash and thank u for you comment, why even complain if it hasnt affected you?
    i think zoomash answered everything for u right there…

  17. sweetangel16175 Says:

    one more thing to tell you here…
    everytime one of our prophets wives had a son… he died…
    i think God did that so that no one could be traced back to the prophet and they might feel superior to everyone else or do something bad….

  18. Hi, Zoomash. Hi, Sweetangel

    Sweetangel: History and the Qur’an may well be two different things. In fact, I have good reason to believe they are two different things. That’s why I assume your mom heard a different story, which she quite reasonably passed on to you. Again, I’m sorry for my clumsy way of trying to say that. At any rate, as I said (and I really meant it), the number of Mohammed’s wives is irrelevant.

    Sects–yes, that was the word I wanted, but I felt sure you would understand denominations as well. No need to feel defensive. I didn’t mean it as a derogatory comment. Anyway, yes, Christianity does have many denominations just as Islam has many sects. This is not a thing I’m happy with. I acknowledge the many failings of the church, though not with any pride. Within my own experience, however, I can tell you that most Christian denominations work well together and love each other. Though we have different preferences regarding style of worship, methods of baptism and some of the more difficult-to-understand theological issues, we are all members of the same family, all beloved by God though we don’t deserve it, all dependent on His grace (His undeserved favor).

    None of us has any grounds for boasting because none of us, on our best day, can hope to do enough good deeds to get us into God’s Kingdom or into His Heaven. Even if we never sinned again, our past sins would still be there to weigh us down into Hell. But we do sin again. We are born slaves to sin and incapable of freeing ourselves.

    So why would God care? If we sinned, rebelled against Him in Adam and in our own wills, why would He care what happened to us enough to send His Son, Jesus (that aspect of Himself Who is the Word of God) to die such a horrible death to cancel out the penalty of our sins, which is eternal death (separation from all good (God is all that is good and there is nothing good without Him) in Hell)?

    The big answer to that is that God loves us and loved us while we were still sinners and continues to love you. This concept of God as Love is repeated over and over in the Bible. Can you find this in the Qur’an?

    Zoomash, you try to defend a middle aged man who is revered as a holy prophet taking a nine-year-old girl to bed. I don’t think you’re a bad person, but I think you’re not thinking this through. Girls in our time are seldom fertile at nine, and for some reason scientists are trying to figure out, girls in our time become fertile much sooner than any girls in history. Is it better nutrition? Mixing of the different races? Or is it an unhealthy thing, caused by some pollutant in the water or the air? We don’t know, but girls became fertile later in Mohammed’s time, and it was not the custom for men in his time to marry and bed nine-year-old girls. Even if the little girl’s parents were okay with it.

    But let’s move on to Islam’s view of women. Surah 2:228–I’m sure you’re familiar with it. Women are inferior to men. Hadith 3.826 Women have such deficient minds and morals that it takes two women to witness in the place of one man. A woman is to receive half the inheritance of a man. Surah 2:282. There’s a lot more, as I’m sure you’re aware. If you want to go further into it, I can get you the references.

    Looking back over my response, I see that I might give you the wrong impression of Christianity–that Christians aren’t obligated to obey any moral laws, but that we just accept God’s forgiveness and then do as we like, but this is not the Bible’s teaching. Jesus said, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” (John 14:15) Paul said, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who bdied to sin live any longer in it?” (Romans 6:1-2)

    The distinction here is that we keep His commandments because He has caused us to become the sort of people who naturally live in the way God commands. He has given us a new heart. That heart is to love our brothers in the Lord: “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 13:14)

    But Jesus went even further. He said that a person who had the new life in him, the life of God’s Kingdom, would even love his enemies: “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you.” (Luke 6:27)

    This is what Jesus taught. It is not necessarily the way that all who call themselves Christians live. Just as all Muslims are not terrorists, all Christians are not living in the fullness of God’s kingdom. In fact, not all who call themselves Christians are even followers of Jesus at all. Just as there are nominal Muslims, there are nominal Christians.

    I realized I haven’t answered all you said, Zoomash, but my comment is already way too long so I’ll stop here. (Also, my long-suffering husband would like to use the computer!)

    God bless you and keep you,

    Cindy

  19. zoomash Says:

    Hi cindyinsd

    Well first of all I agree with you that there many sects in Islam (and other religions) and Quran clearly forbids us to do so. But as always we are going away from Quran and that is the reason we muslims are suffering and are not progressing in this world. There was a time when muslims were at the top in every field.

    Regarding mercy of Allah in Quran. Allah mercy has been mentioned many times in Quran and Allah has reminded us that we should believe in HIM as HE is the only one we should worship.

    Here are just few verses from Quran to inform you about the Allah mercy:-

    “…And know that Allah knows what is in your hearts and take heed of Him; and know that Allâh is Oft Forgiving, Most Forbearing.” (2:235)

    “Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for your fault…” (47:19).

    “Be you foremost (in seeking) forgiveness from your Rabb, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of Heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allâh and His Messengers. That is the Grace of Allâh, which He bestows on whom He pleases; and Allâh is the Rabb (Only God) of Grace abounding.” (57:21)

    Regarding Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) marrying Aisha:-
    Cindy I have already given you proof that it was followed at that time to get married at such a young age. You are trying to discuss the situation 1400 years ago today which is not logical.

    Young girls in the Bible and Jewish Talmud. Let’s look at two main points in the Bible:
    1- 3-year old slave girls were forced into sex under the Mosaic Law in the Bible.
    2- Fathers can sell their daughters as slave girls to other men in the Bible.

    Also today, the Jewish law for marriage sets the age of consent for females at 11. (Consent is only one way of marriage) I do not know if modern Jewish law still allows (in theory) betrothal by intercourse as it was practiced in ancient times.

    Also, the age consent in the US and Europe only 100 years ago for girls’ marriage was as little as 10, and some popular men figures married little girls who were as young as their daughters.

    Regarding “Women are inferior to men”, please follow this link and all your misconception about Islam is going to be answered. Do you in Bible women is not even given 1/2 of what rights Islam has given?

    Cindy I know you have got these questions from website claiming to be by “ex-muslims” or “answering Islam”. But the truth is if you are un-biased there is not even a single verse in Glorious Quran which could be proved wrong. This is a challenge which many great scholars of different faith have failed to win.

  20. sweetangel16175 Says:

    hi cindy,
    i found a verse from the qur’an that is obviously translated in three different ways, but they all show that we believe in the same God.
    its chapter three, the third sura; the third line, the third aya.

    003.003

    YUSUFALI: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

    PICKTHAL: He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

    SHAKIR: He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat (the torah) and the Injeel (the bible) aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.”

  21. Hi, Sweetangel 🙂

    I like the new look–very nice. I haven’t forgotten about you and Zoomash, nor stopped praying for both of you. I’ve had a lot going on, plus our satellite connection hasn’t responded well to all the rain and fog we’ve been having, so the times I could have written, we were off line.

    We have family visiting this weekend and I need to prepare my Children’s Church meeting, so I might not get a chance to answer your latest posts, but I will get back to you.

    God’s Grace and Peace,

    Cindy

  22. Hi, Sweetangel

    Yes, I’ve read that verse. I’m going to have to get a more modern translation of the Koran. Mine is full of thee’s and thou’s and shalt’s, and all that. It makes it a little hard to follow.

    So, Mohammed said the words of God can’t be corrupted–that God wouldn’t allow it. And he says in 3.003 that the Old Testament (Torah) and the Gospels mentioned in this verse as having come from God also cannot be corrupted? It would only make sense.

    The apostle John (Jesus’ best friend) said in the gospel of John, quoting Jesus:

    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes (relies on, trusts in, clings to)in Him should not perish, but should have everlasting life.

    “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

    “He who believes in the Son is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    “And this is the condemnation that light has come into the world and men have loved darkness rather than light for their deeds were evil.

    “For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light lest his deeds should be exposed.

    “But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” (John 3:16-21)

    You might enjoy reading the whole passage, which runs from John 3:1-21. You can find it at http://www.biblegateway.com .

    You can choose from loads of translations, but I usually recommend the New Century Version to young people. It seems to appeal to most of my daughter’s friends, anyway. My own favorite is the Holman Christian Standard or the New King James (which I’ve quoted here, I hope fairly accurately, with the addition of a few expanded word meanings from the Amplified Version.)

    I’ve seen some Muslims expressing puzzlement as to why we Christians need so many translations of our Bible. If we could read ancient Greek, we would need only one since all the ancient manuscripts agree very closely with one another. The reason for the great variety of translations is this . . . Scholars are always trying to do a better job. It’s kind of like your own scholars saying that you haven’t really read the Koran until you’ve read it in Arabic. You could say the same of the Christian scriptures. Until you are fluent in the original languages, you can’t easily get the full meaning. Meanwhile, our linguists keep working to give us better and better translations into modern languages.

    Well, I’ve rather gotten off the track here, Sweetangel. Sorry ’bout that. I hope you’ll check out the Bible, though, since Mohammed himself recommends it as the word of God.

    Grace and Peace to you,

    Cindy

  23. Hi, Zoomash

    Sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you. I wouldn’t be writing tonight, except my husband is out walking and so will not be so jealous of my spending so much time writing on-line. 😉 This will probably be a short response as he wants to go to town when he gets back.

    I have a couple of quick questions for you. It’s not essential that I know, of course, and if you’d rather not answer, that’s fine, but are you male or female? I can’t tell from your name. (What does your name mean, if you don’t mind my asking?) And what country do you live in? I’m in the USA, in the state of South Dakota, but you probably guessed that.

    Zoomash, I have read the stories of too many girls who have suffered under Islam–personal testimonies from sources I trust–to be swayed by theological arguments on some Islamic website. The Koran did indeed give women more rights than they had in the society into which Mohammed was born. It does not in any way give them more rights than the Old Testament does, and certainly not more than are implied in the New Testament.

    Lots of things happened in the Old Testament that I don’t understand. It is the story of what people did as much as it is the story of God’s actions and laws. Some of the laws, furthermore, were given by Moses as a function of his authority, and not directly by God’s command. I can only say that God was gently guiding His people out of the darkness that prevailed in the world at that time. I have, however, read the Old Testament very closely and continue to read it often. There is no mention of Jewish men wedding 3 year old girls and certainly no mention of God’s approving it.

    In ancient Jewish society, a person was allowed to sell himself and, by extension his family, into servitude. Girls were sometimes sold into concubinage. Though God does not specifically permit this in His law, He does assume that a female slave would likely be “humbled” and forbids her being sold, abused, or forced to leave her new home without compensation. This was revolutionary protection for women at that time, though today no Jew would consider treating women in such a way, nor would he be allowed to do so by his society. The “slavery” spoken of here was engaged in because of financial desperation on the part of the person selling himself and his family, and was of specifically time-limited duration (Except for the young women already mentioned.) Furthermore, it is no longer practiced, which is a big point for me, and a point which cannot be universally made for the Islamic world.

    As for Aishah, I don’t understand what you’re talking about when you mention having given me proof, but this isn’t going anywhere. If you’d like to drop it, that’s okay. I don’t have any desire to squabble and it did happen more than a thousand years ago.

    I realize that Allah’s mercy is mentioned over and over in the Koran (and probably the Hadith though I haven’t read a lot of them). It wasn’t mercy (which might be shown by any superior being at a whim or for cause) that I was asking about. It was love.

    I want to know about Allah’s love, and your love for Allah. I want to know about Allah’s love for sinners and for his children–or does he take humans, his creatures, for his adopted children as the God of the Bible does? Does he command us to love one another? Does he exhort us that if his love lives in our hearts we will love even our enemies? If you would like to see the scriptures I’m referencing, I will gladly give you chapter and verse which you can look up on-line. Just let me know.

    May the God of love richly bless you and reveal Himself to you,

    Cindy

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